Twin-Clutch vs. Stick-Shift

Having cars with both options. I prefer a standard manual transmission.

So far, I still like the stick. But the reasons may not be valid for others, nor do they suggest that a traditional manual is inherently superior. First, I have used a stick for over 40 years. So there is comfort with it, as well as a certain degree of muscle memory. I don't even have to think about what I'm doing when I use one. I suspect that if one gets used to a paddle shift, the same thing will occur. I just don't know. The periods during which I've used paddle shifters have been measured in days rather than years. The other reason, which is related, is that with a stick I don't have to look at some display to know what gear I'm in. Simply placing my had on the shifter, without taking my eyes off the road, tells me. On the other hand, with paddle shifters I suppose it really doesn't matter which gear you are in. Sound and feel will just let you know whether to shift and down. So it still comes back to what I'm used to. I expect that someone who hasn't used a stick, but learns on paddle shifters, will feel just as comfortable using those as I do the old fashioned way. And both F1 and road test times can't all be wrong. I look forward to someday having the opportunity to live with a good dual clutch paddle shift, and see if my thinking evolves.

My cars have auto with manual gears on the shift stick as well as dual-clutch paddle shift transmissions behind the steering wheel. Reason being that it I feel like having an andrealin of driving or feeling sleepy when driving on auto, I could switch to manual to keep myself awake and/or feel the kick out of it. But however, I find those with the paddle shifts that are fixed onto the rear of the steering wheel with the (-) on the left and (+) on the right extremely annoying and difficult to play with. Though such design is deemed to adopt the concept of F1 cars, but vehicle designers did not realised that the steering wheel of F1 cars do not turn as much as normal vehicles. One would have noticed that F1 drivers' hands are always stuck on the steering wheel when taking bends and at the same time able to use the paddle shifts that are fixed behind the steering wheels. I find that our vehicles adopting the F1 concept is rather dangerous and unsafe because of the possibility of losing the paddle shifts orientation. Whenever I drive a car with such manual shift concept while taking bends and turning at road junctions, I always use the 1st manual gear on the auto gear stick for pickup and then use the paddle shift behind the steering wheel on straight roads. The Mazda 6 car besides having the option to play with manual gears on the shift stick, have 2 (+) paddle shifts levers mounted onto the rear of the steering wheel and turn with the latter and 2 (-) buttons on the steering wheel facing the driver on both left and right of the steering wheel. The exception of the Mazda 6 gears is such that when taking bends, a driver is able to use both (+) and (-) gears either on either side of the steeing wheel. Lastly, in my personal opinion, I feel that having the (+) & (-) paddle shifts permanently mounted horizontally on the steering block where all the other levers are, is still the best and safest. Such can be found in Citroen, Peugeot and Japanese cars.

Automatics are great for selecting the right gear. Or at least they are supposed to be. Sometimes they fail because they can't see or anticipate road conditions ahead. Sometimes automatics fail because they were programmed with a different emphasis on performance/fuel economy/comfort than I have at that moment. So now, you can be responsible for picking the gears. That takes care of blaming the engineers for gear selection. But the clutchless actuation misses something - how you release the clutch speaks to intent. When racing, clutch action is fast. When slowly cruising, you might take seconds to release the clutch. The clutch represents the emotional connection of the driver to the car. In practice, I have a standard transmission on my BMW, and an automatic on my minivan. I am not emotional about driving the van and I am engaged in driving the BMW. Both seem the right transmission choice for the vehicles they are in. I just don't get the paddle shifter. It just seems dumb to me. GM was rightly proud when they developed the fully automatic transmission. The paddle shift is back to the future - a new user interface on a very old idea.

I am living with my first real auto-manual but my second car with paddle shifters. My current car, an M6, is well suited to the SMG (auto-manual) transmission but it lacks refinement as a driver. Running it hard, it is a perfect tranmission - no guessing on gears and no need to move your hands. Michael's point about mounting the paddles on the steering block is a very good point; but you can always reach for the shifter on the floor if you are on center when turning. From my experience, I usually fine myself twisted like that when I am not running hard but around town when I could let it be an auto. As to Mike's emotional connection - 507HP speaks volumes of emotion when you dial in the EDC and the shifting modes.

Thanks for the information you provide

I think you are agreeing with me? - The M6 is set up to be a racer, not a driver. And my answer would be if it had a clutch, it could do both very well - maybe both types of driving - better than an autobox with a light switch attached. I understand that driving a standard car has a learning curve, but there is a reward too. And you don't need 507hp to find driving joy.

While there are times that I have to drive a vehicle with an automatic, I never do it by choice. It's simply more involving to do it yourself. You stay more focused on the task at hand, driving. You have more control. Believe me, there's nothing worse when you slow for an icy hairpin climbing a mountain road than the automatic deciding you need a lower gear.

It greatly saddens me to see clutch pedals disappearing as choices. The Ford SVT Raptor is a spectacular truck, but no half-ton Ford pickup can be had with a stick. I never thought I'd see that day.

I drove the 370Z from Nissan with stick and auto. I preferred the auto even tho I have a BMW with 5-speed stick.

I have a manual transmission in my car. I have never used those other dual clutch/manumatic/DSG setups, and would be interested in trying them. I've heard good things from some of those other transmissions from this website and others. I think a manual is good for some driving situations, but not for others, like being in stop and go traffic, and when doing something else with your free hand while driving. . Maybe the car manufacturers are trying to find a be all end all setup that works in every situation.

One of the forcing factors in developing DCTs has been the EPA emission requirements. A traditional manual transmission leads to hydrocarbon spikes twice on every ratio change: once when the driver lifts her foot during the declutched time, which causes the flashing-off of fuel on the port walls due to manifold pressure going low (high "vacuum") as the throttle is closed, and again as she tips into the throttle to match crankshaft and clutch disk speed, during which maneuver extra fuel must be delivered to rewet the port walls so as to avoid a stumble and lean misfire. Sorry for the long wind there. DCTs avoid the two hydrocarbon spikes per shift since they accomplish the change at constant throttle, and the torque load change can be accomplished without losing the fuel film on the port walls.

I find that DSG and SMG both have something in common. They can shift faster than I can. Thus one will find that acceleration is quicker and down shifts just as fast. I had a M3 with SMG and will admit by todays standards it was rather clunky. But my son has a R32 with DSG and it is an awesome gearbox. A "gearbox for all seasons". I currently drive a 6 SP manual RS4 which, if it had the newer 7speed S-TRONIC, would be an unbelieveable automobile. We are not being forced into dual-clutch transmissions. It's called progress.

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When I was a kid, I accompanied my father one day on a quest to buy a new car. We were familiar with tractors and farm trucks -- profoundly utilitarian. We looked at a Chevy with a 2-speed automatic transmission. I whispered to Dad, "A car with a 3-speed would be better." The salesman overheard me and expressed his doubts about the value of an automatic transmission possessing any more than 2 speeds. Later, a young friend told me that his father vowed he give up driving before resorting to a "slushbox." About 15 years later, while living in Saskatchewan, I drove a Mack with a 5-speed main tranny, and a 3-speed auxiliary (for a total of 15 speeds), both shifted manually by big, meaty sticks. Down-shifting when going uphill could be tricky, because you knew you would have to skip a few gears as the truck quickly decelerated. Rarely did I use the clutch pedal or glance at the tach, since that only added to the delay of power-transmission and loss of road speed. Besides, both the main and auxiliary boxes lacked synchronizing mechanisms, so it was all "seat-of-the-pants" driving anyway. Jump ahead another 30 years: My wife's aging Miata with 5-speed manual stick is a joy to drive; my VW Passat Wagon with Tiptronic -- well, cushy in city driving, but not so much fun on the twisty mountain highways of British Columbia. I would love to try a DSG-equipped VW or Audi (or the equivalent in another brand), but I suspect I would still prefer a manual transmission, for the visceral sensation if for no other reason. Besides, sometimes old habits die hard.

It's the involvement level that makes a full manual transmission more enjoyable. Let's face it...most of the time we spend behind the wheel these days is at lower speeds, often in congested situations. An automatic or automated manual doesn't give me enough to do. A full manual keeps me more entertained and involved. Besides, how often are we driving fast enough for a long enough period to really get any real benefit out of the superior shifting speed today's DCT-style automated manual transmissions can provide? And when you're not driving at 9/10's or better, they just feel clunky.

I refer to brennerl's posting in particularly to his sentence "Let's face it....most of the time we spend behind the wheel these days is at lower speeds, often in congested situations", Having cars with automated manual (Twin-Clutch or Stick-Shift), I find it very relaxing and not taxing especially when driving in congested situations and in the city where traffic is heavy by just putting on 'D' mode. Reason being that one do not have to keep changing gears as with fully manual transmission vehicles. For vehicle with automated manual, the driver has the option of driving either automatic by just putting on 'D' or with automated manual at the same time. My driving style is when I am on a congested road or city with heavy traffic, I would put on 'D' automatic. But if the road is not so congested, I usually drive with manual automatic. Being one who rarely drive with radio or music on as I prefer to hear the 'growling' sound of the engine especially during acceleration and pick-up, the other advantage that I like with manual automatic is whenever I feel bored or sleepy when driving on uncongested roads or highways. I would switch to manual automatic and play with the paddle shift or stick-shift so as to keep myself alert and focuss on the road. The above are just my personal experience and preference with manual automatic vehicle over fully manual transmission ones.

In the 1960s, air pollution from automobiles was a problem. I would argue that it no longer is a problem, and that the latest round of clean air regulations for cars and trucks was overkill. Our fire department bought a diesel brush truck, built on a GMC 4500 chassis. It actually sprays diesel on the catalyst intermittently to scrub off the soot. In other words, engineers have passed the point of diminishing returns. To waste a significant amount of fuel to remove an insignificant amount of pollution is driven more by political grandstanding than by the amount of pollution. The improvement gained is trivial compared to the pollution produced by older diesels. The cost of the additional hardware is not insignificant, either. They've gone too far.

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For me, it is all about control. I need to have as much control over the car as possible. Now, I have never driven a twin-clutch system, but I have to assume that a hand-brake turn is not possible with one.

I have owned cars with both type of trani's ( although not the latest DSG or Tiptronic ), but my most driving fun was an '07 Mini S, with a 6sp. Driving it on Hwy 1(Coast Hwy) from Monterey to San Luis ObispoI was a great thrill. I sold it, and bought a Subaru WRX, which has also has a manual Trani, with AWD. However, I must say living in the San Francisco Bay Area, I do great deal around-town driving. An automatic is much more convenient for this. Also, driving the hills in the city are not fun. I also don't think it matters which trani you have if you are on a highway( I 5 or Hwy 280 ), in cruise control at 70 mph. The benefits of a manual trani( combined with a good handling car ) really come into play on twisty back country roads, climbing hills, and controlling steep inclines. My wife and I both prefer our stick shifts, but we have a '99 Mercury Sable, with an automatic to do some of the around town and city driving. Mostly, it comes down to the kind of driving you do and where you live. Sticks can be fun and useful, but they can be a pain in the neck(especially on a Los Angeles freeway at rush-hour!!!!!)

When BMW announced a SMG was going to be available in the new M3, I had to have one, and ordered it. I ride sport motorcycles and the sequential system is very familiar to me, and as to performancel, F1 cars have sequential boxes with electronically managed clutches, and I hear they are somewhat oriented towards performance. That and the image of being stuck occasionally in bumper to bumper traffic on the 405 made it seem like the "everything" solution. Indeed on track days at Button Willow or Willow Springs it worked very well indeed. Was never able to directly compare lap times, but seat of the pants it felt faster than manual shifting (Again they do this in F1 for a reason) Also the clunkiness around town, (as opposed to a torque converter auto) was no big thing: it's a performance car right? What bugged me, and it's in common with all these brands and transmissions, is that it's significantly slower accelerating from a stop. I'm not talking about balls out hitting it or using launch control, just when you want to leave a light or enter a highway (from a stop sign)a bit quicker than normal. On the M3, with it's so-so low end torque, (6 cylinder) unless you really get it on, soccer mom in the E350 is going to beat you across the intersection. The 0-30 of all these so equipped cars seems inferior, not only to a manual shift, but even to a torque converter auto. Unless the car has big bags of low end torque, I'm sticking with a manual for the next one.

You've kinda culled out those favoring manuals. Well here goes; I have a six speed BMW with clutch and love it every moment. Even in stop and go traffic I never doubt I ordered the correct transmission. The connection to the mechanical is fantastic and feeling the power is why we love razor edge cars to begin with. I like to be part of the process.

A lot of people have touched on the fundamentals of manual transmission preference. It's driver involvement - clutch control. In the name of comfort and security, increased technology in motor vehicles has traded off responsibility and at what point do you stop calling yourself a driver? If you just want to get from point A to point B that's perfectly fine, you'll get there comfortably, safely, and swiftly. The dissatisfaction I personally have with any form of auto-transmission is that it's so stuck in the moment. It's the best ratio for that moment exclusively. The vehicle I'm driving doesn't 'know' the road ahead - or what I'm planning to do. I'm not a big fan of being told what's best for me. If I don't want to be hitting optimum revs at the apex, I'd like to have that option. That way maybe I don't need to be on the brakes during the turn and I can time max torque for my exit, all whilst keeping my foot on the gas. Like the accelerator, the clutch is another fine degree of modulation... or control. The best part is that I'm using my feet instead of giving my hands more stuff to do. It's fair to say paddle shifting gives me back that control... so why would I have taken it away in the first place, for something less involving? I've never tried to turn in hard, after braking late, with one hand, and tried to paddle shift up or down.. but im not sure at 3/4 full lock it's going to be too fluid. Besides, it's not as macho to have bragging rights about quick pinkie shifts as it is to heel-toe downshift around the outside on the last corner.

My reasons for liking sticks are many, as long as they are good stick shifts. I had a new 2007 Subaru Outback 3.6(?) with a 5 speed. When really going fast, many times the shifter was balky and notchy - drove me crazy - I very much rather enjoyed the loaner auto I had for a day. Also reading about the sluggish transmissions in most autos and some of the problems in DSG's, tiptronics, etc. make me shy away from them. Case in point, I leased a new 2007 BMW X3 and though the test drive auto was really nice and smooth, I had read about lurching issues as well as lag issues for the automatics in the forums so I got the stick instead and could not have been happier. I love the stick for perhaps strange reasons - when coming to a light on a level surface, at times I like to place the car in neutral and take my foot off the brake until the light changes or while rolling into a parking space, keeping the clutch in, I can turn off the engine - and blessed silence as I roll into the space - I just like this 'flexibility' of the stick vs the autobox. And though perhaps a particular stick may be in line with an auto's acceleration, I think you can push a stickshift car more in 'high rev' short bursts than you can with an auto, or at least it seems you have more power doing these maneuvers. Examples include waiting for an opening for a turn across traffic - revving the engine just before takeoff, then going for it at the perfect correct moment. And I also take some pride in knowing how to drive a stick shift, just as I know how to drive/ride a motorcycle or a snowmobile (even a horse for that matter). You drive all these modes of conveyances very differently. Countersteering for the motorcycle, Bodyweight issues for the snowmobile. To the beginner there is a fairly steep learning curve. Riding a motorcycle is almost a constant learning process. Ultimately I think it makes you a more 'competent' person and can be lifesaving - especially if there is only a manual trans car in an emergency situation, like transporting someone to the hospital or whatever. I just love the manual transmission and the feeling of control it gives - it makes me engaged in the driving experience. I don't think I will ever get an auto - if I do you better believe it will have gobs of power to make up for the fun of not using a stick shift. My next car on order is a VW Golf TDI, gobs of torque, okay horsepower and of course a sweet six speed!

Ok, it is clear so far that likeness for manuals is the rule; I'm a stick person too. And some times I've been asked why? Well, I`m a guy born in the fifties and I get involved with the family car at early age. I did take care of all of the cars maintenance, and I did do my job inside the engine bay with my hands stained with grease and my clothes impregnated with aroma of gasoline and motor fluids. And that way you learned to get involved with the functioning of the machine. Next thing was the driving, now that you already knew the secrets of your car, when you drove it you can feel all parts working together and you knew you can participate too: By steering it; by accelerating, by breaking and by SHIFTING! And that is why I think I'm a shifting person, even now when you can do nothing inside the engine bay of a modern car, unless you're a computer geek. I look forward for a car in which I can still be part of the mechanical process, and by deciding when and where I should make the shifting the more I get involved and the more I feel I'm becoming a part of the machine. No twin clutches or paddles can give you such a sensation...

Both of our family's cars are manuals, and they were hard to find at that. For both my wife and I, the pairing of AWD or 4WD options to help handle New England winters, paired with the increased feeling of control in wintry conditions that I get with a manual transmission, is an ideal that is increasingly difficult to obtain. So far we're lucky Subaru hasn't ditched MTs - we have a Forester. And we are going to try and hold on to our MT Jeep Liberty 4WD for as long as possible, as I believe MT is no longer an option on the new Liberties. Oh well.

I drove a 2006 for 39,000 miles and only missed having a clutch twice, in snow storms. The SMG transmission is a wonder, but it will not allow the quick reverse to first shift you need to rock a car in the snow. Living in New England snow is a third of the year. I had driven every other generation of M5 as a year round vehicle. I bought the M5 after seeing a demonstration at Limerock on the Vintage Weekend event in 2006. I watched the BMW test driver taking guests around the track, he could change his line for a turn and the smg compensated for the appropriate throttle and gear selection. To see the car react the same in manual and automatic modes was fascinating. The SMG is a tech wonder, but it has issues with Mother Nature.

I love the tactile involvment that comes with shifting for yourself. However, at the ripe young age of 67, what with my family's historical arthritis starting to kick in, I'm afraid that my '08 Shelby GT500 Mustang might just be the last of my long list of cars to come with a clutch pedal. C'est la Vie. C'est la Knee!

i currently own a tundra which is the first automatic transmission i ever had. after 7 years i still occasionally lift my left leg to hit the clutch when coming to a stop. one advantage to an automatic is when in a traffic jam, you're not on and off the clutch every 5 seconds. other than that i enjoy having a manual transmission. i've test driven cars with the dsg and i thought to myself after the novelty wears off, i'd probably leave it in automatic mode. it just doesn't seem to be the same thing.

I've had two computerized manual transmissions, an Audi 3.2 TT and smart fortwo. Neither was really an enjoyable experience; but the smart car, after their software fix, was the better of the two. If you want an automatic, get one. If you don't, include the clutch; or else it is just an automatic without the torque converter.

Logically, a twin-clutch gearbox is the way to go for a high-performance car, for all the reasons outlined here. It makes me kinda sad, though: few people can properly, consistently heel-and-toe at full chat on the track, and it's a skill I took some pleasure in learning and applying over the years. As easy as it is to do once you know how and practice it a bit, it's a small thing that differentiated true track rats from less rabid automobile aficionados. Now, perfect throttle blips while standing on the brakes are as simple as checking off an option box. And sadly (from my perspective) some of the more desirable cars from the likes of Ferrari and BMW no longer have a manual as an option.

It isn't (to my mind) "sad" that Ferraris and BMW's (?) " no longer have a manual as an option" It just represents change that comes from technology. As I said before, I enjoy rowing my way through the gears on my drives through the Western USA and California in particular, in my '08 GT500, but I know that my next performance car will have one of the new fangled "automatic" transmissions. That will come to the great relief of my arthritic knee and occasion bout of gout. It will also come with the feeling of relief knowing of greater reliability and no more fried clutches and flywheels that come from negotiating traffic on my hometown of San Francisco's hills. I've had my fun with "sticks," now I'm going high tech. I threw away my typewriter, too. Change is good.

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No one is mentioning longevity. A good manual transmission will always last much longer than anyone of these complicated devices with separate controlling modules requiring input from the ECM, ABS module, etc. As such, residual value will be higher as the car ages. IMO and with much VW TDI experience over the years, VW manual gearboxes last 400K plus when not abused ( you may have to ditch the dual mass flywheel along the way in favor of a nice and simple single mass one ) but I know for a fact that the slushboxes won't last as long and the DSG's most likely won't and will be guaranteed to cost more in maintenance costs along the way. Plus, I'm not racing anyone on my commute ( normally ), I don't care if the DSG beats me in shift speed, I just want the car to last as long as it can and maintain as much value as it can over time, that my bottom line. Plus, yes the control of course, I don't feel that in DSG or slushbox transmissions, nothing provides the satisfaction of a manual. The emissions is a tough one, crazy that an overly strict policy would bias manufacturers to make cars that are far more disposable over time...

Even F1 uses auto. What more need to say

I have been driving a stick since 1967. (Still wish i had the 66 Mustang GT). I still enjoy the shifting MOST of the time, traffic can be a real bummer, not to mention passengers who are far more used to automatic operation. I test drove a Porsche with DCT and the thing was brutal and a blast to drive. Everyone thinks they can downshift while smoothly matching revs and keep it smooth, but the reality is all the emissions, etc. get in the way and tend to screw up the shift. Cars all have 5-6 speed trans that are only a few hundred rpms from the next lower gear. Ever try to blip the throttle on a 3.5 litre G35 for just a few revs? And just remember that guy trying to ease past you so he can cut in front of you. Wouldn't you like to be able to drop 2-3 gears without a care?

I never thought I'd select an automatic over a stick but after having compared the two; I actually chose the 7 spd auto for my 370Z for a few reasons 1. It's faster (4.6 vs.4.8 from 0-60 mph.). 2. It felt smoother in the car; a lot of engine vibration (it's pretty raucous) was transmitted through the shifter and clutch. 3. the auto best of both worlds; convenience of the auto for mindless day to day driving along with the certainty of always having the right gear available right at my fingertips through the paddles.

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I love the new 7 speed S-Tronic in my Audi S4, It's unbelievable and so fast to up-shift and down-shift to the right gear manually or automatically. You always find your self in the correct gear for the right torque. I used to own a 6 speed 2006 BMW 330i SP and the shifter was really tight and great, but getting the feeling from one to the other is like granny going from a pencil to a computer mouse. Believe it or not you get used to progress. What one would think of using an 8 gear manual? Mechatronic is here to stay and the future is full of it, it's just that you need to assimilate the new emotions that are opposite to what you believe in. Most of us are reluctant to progress, they say that it will cost more and more to maintain. My answer to this is more and more people are going to buy it and on the long run, to cost of owning is going to go down. Think of your personal computer. 20 years a loaded PC was exactly $5000. Today, the equivalent was $1500. Think about LCD display. 5 years a go, a good LCD display (42”) was about $4000. Today you may own one for $1000.

Whether one prefers to own a vehicle that is fully manual or one with auto and manual transmission (triptronic or steptronic) is to one's preference. Motoring technologies have become so advanced that vehicles are designed with both auto and manual transmissions and clutchless. For die-heart drivers who swear by only manual transmission vehicles, I believe that a trial of testing a vehicle with both auto and manual transmissions might change their mindset that only vehicles with clutch controled manual gears perform better than the other. Just take the Japanese popular performance cars such Subaru Impreza and Mitsubishi Evo for example. These cars used to be only with manual transmissions but now come with manual paddle and gear stick shifts and clutchless and the performance of these are comparable with their fully manual versions. Even the F1 racing cars have dumped the clutched manual transmission and replaced with clutchless paddle shift manual gears. Being in my mid 50's now, owning my first car at aged 18-years and now with several cars all of which with auto and clutchless manual gears. I find the fun of driving them. When driving along congested roads or roads with slow speed limit, I just need to put on 'D' drive but whenever there are opportunities of using manual gears, I can simply play with the paddle or gear stick. However, if I should feel sleepy while driving, using the manual transmission helps to keep make alert and stay awake. Unlike the earlier versions where maintenance was rather high for vehicles that come with auto and clutchless manual gears, the new generation vehicles are quite cheap to maintain. The other plus point of owning a vehicle with both auto and manual gears especially if it's the only family vehicle and used by husband and wife or even children, is for them to just put on auto mode and having a smooth drive.

Sorry but auto-clutch manuals are total B.S. for a road car. Manual clutch cars provide BY far the most driver involvement, control and fun - and frankly thats the reason why people would choose a manual (beyond fuel efficiency or cost in low priced vehicles). There is simply no argument - but unfortunately we have raised a new generation of coddled fools who are unable to drive a manual and who are too used to instant gratification to spend a few days learning - and most annoyingly this generation has now infiltrated the Automotive Magazine ranks, so the only advocates that forced car manufactures to offer manual clutches, now tout the virtues of manumatics that for 95% of owners get put in D after 4-6weeks of ownership and are never 'shifted' again - not that doing so really would add that much anyway....If you are a driving enthusiast you drive a manual transmission with a clutch - period!

When you do not have a choice on transmissions then you are being forced to drive automatics. DSG/SMG whatever fancy names they are given are all automatic. Driving an automatic should be MY choice and not forced upon me by the industry.

I have owned twenty+ manual clutch sports cars and three with the so called auto-clutch format. Let's be very clear: the auto-clutch was designed for the 25-54 year old crowd of metro sexuals who feel that a manual is just too much effort for their poor little left legs. The fun part is...no matter how much this crowd tries to 'baby' their auto-clutches, their dealers will replace them about every 25,000 miles at 2X the cost of manual which would have lasted twice as long. The auto-clutch was invented for S U C K E R S.

If you are a car enthusiast, you don't buy a track ready vehicle without potential lap performance in mind. If I spend over 100k on a "sports car", I care if the transmission option is impededing the cars performace. I want it to have anything that yields maximum performance. That doesn't make me a non enthusiast either. An automatic with a sport mode or gate for shifting is still not a manual (you can shift a normal automatic manually to an extent). The topic should be traditional manual vs. motorsport (or style if you prefer) manual. If you want a fun car, get that Honda Civic with the traditional manual. But don't put a row boat in my FXX and tell me that it along with everything else on the car was designed for maximum speed. Traditional manual is more fun, but it is not more or as efficient when talking performance. You have to decide what you are driving your "fast" car for.

Are you kidding me??? an FXX isnt even street legal - WTF are you talking about? Cause i dont think anyone here is talking about race cars or even exotics like Ferraris - we are talking about ROAD CARS driven by enthusiasts who care about driving enjoyment.... In fact you make my point perfectly - if car manufacturers want to make their enthusiast offerings for the .00001% people who intend to track race their road car and need a dual clutch automatic I guess they can but it is a very dumb business model and the Auto press that is supposed to be geared toward the everyday enthusiast should call them out on it.

I have read many of the comments from various people regarding automatics/Dual Clutch Transmissions/ etc., vs. manuals. I can only say that I find it funny that so many of these writers seem to equate "manhood" with a clutch. And, I will match my "macho" with anyone. Married, divorced, married, widowed, married; two kids, five grandkids, and an honorable discharge from the Marine Corps as a Sergeant. I own a 2008 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500, with a six speed manuel transmission. It's a fine transmission. It has only one drawback: A $5000.00 clutch. I found this out when, after 12,250 miles, my clutch began to slip , probably after more than a few "test" runs by the sales staff at the dealer. Long story short, Serramonte Ford, in Colma, California, a Shelby dealer, told me that I had passed the 12K mile warranty for the clutch and, in so many words, "pay up, sucker!" I have had many, many cars in my 50 plus years of driving, all but three of them "sticks." I live in San Francisco, a city reknwned for its clutch killing hills. I don't kill clutches. I know how to drive in San Francisco. I have 28K on the car now and the clutch works fine. That being said, if I had my druthers, at the ripe young age of 67, I'd love one of those new, slick, DSG/twin clutch autos. But, alas, it's not in Ford's parts bin, at least for now. So I'm going to put the Shelby in the garage, saving it for long trips, and get a new Audi A3 turbo Quatro, with the new DSG transmission. I've driven them, and they work great.

With "drive-by-wire", which is almost universal these days, there would seem to be no need to have the two hydrocarbon spikes, especially if the car has direct injection. Even port injection is not going to have a lot of fuel on the manifold walls, and the ECU can easily avoid the first spike by using slow closing of the throttle. But it's my understanding that paddle shifters are meant to be safer, among other things, because you don't have to drive with one hand while you shift. Of course, if you are in the middle of a tight turn, and the car doesn't have quick steering, then maybe you won't have the paddles at your fingertips. But under those conditions, reaching for the shift lever is not easy, in all cars.

Lordpylewood, you should your Marine corp brothers pay the dealer a "visit". 12k for a clutch is silly. authenticity, you must be > 54 yrs old :)

I am a huge fan of old school, three pedal manuals. Other than stop and go traffic, there is no need for an automatic on a true drivers car. That said, the paddle shift Audi TT I drove recently was fast and fun - but the shifting and clutching is part of the experience - not a chore. I very much resent cars, especially sports or performance cars, that do not at least offer both a manual and a paddle shift. It just seems wrong. Plus, the release or engagement of the clutch can be used to control a car in ways that are impossible otherwise. When you have a great shifter setup like on the Civic Si or S2000 it is a pure pleasure to shift. I like my 2003 Infiniti I 35 even with its automatic. But I loved my 2002 Toyota Mr-2 Spyder with its willing five speed. And there you have it.