Ask It: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS On Winter Tires

This should be a wild ride!

How much of a difference did you actually notice between all seasons and the winter tires?

Just wondering if "Pierlli Scorpion Ice & Snow tires" are the same as Pirelli? ;-)

The difference between proper snow tires and all seasons can't be compared. All season tires excel in no season at all because the properties that make a good warm and dry weather tire are exactly the properties that make a poor wet/cold/icy weather tire. So by meeting in the "middle" an all season sacrifices performance in all conditions.

I live in Madison, WI. During the last snow here I saw 3 new Camaro's stuck on the side of the road on slight inclines. Sorry, I was laughing at them and their fancy new car that couldnt move. My G35 with KDW's was just fine,,,,, as long as I didn't stop on the incline! The right tires, on a RWD vehicle, make all the difference in the world!

Will it do anything at all interesting with the traction control on? The difference between snow tires and all seasons on any car is unbelievable. My non-traction controlled '91 535i with snow tires will out accelerate a Subaru on all seasons. Mandatory equipment in the winter on any vehicle, IMO. On snow, they make RWD something to be merely aware of, rather than something to be scared of.

I recently bought a new Avalanche, and I'm amazed at what GM has done with traction and stability control in 2wd mode on icy roads - if the Camaro has those features as well, with ice/snow tires it should do very well - can't wait to see the results of the test. Mabye I'll get a Camaro for a 2nd car when the Avy is paid off...

Please demonstrate how well this car does on an incline. A perfect test would be stop and go traffic on a snow covered Eisenhower Pass during a massive blizzard. But since you're in Michigan, you've got nothing like what we Coloradans have to deal with.

ive got a '94 530 without traction and i completely agree with u. I have blizzak tires on it and it is so completely controllable, it gives u so much more confidence.

If you really want good traction in deep snow, you don't buy wide, low-profile winter tires, the way this car is equipped. At the risk of stating something we probably already know, narrower tires with a higher profile are far better in snow. Any car, outfitted with good winter tires and driven with proper regard for the road conditions, will perform decently in cold weather and snow, so it's no wonder that GM offered up this car for a test. But in winter, FWD beats RWD hands down. And nothing beats all-wheel-drive and a good stability control system (like BMW's DSC).

I recall that I had Michelin tires on my Cadillac which qualified as 'snow tires' in New York state; I was never stuck by ice or snow.

I've driven many a Canadian winter, with 10+ feet of snow accumulated over four months and temperatures down to -40 F, with all-seasons, but you have to drive extremely conservatively. The difference with good winter tires and DSC is that you can maintain something closer to your normal speed when the roads are bad. No vehicle, and no tire, makes you immune to wipe-outs if you do something stupid (like driving at 70 mph in freezing rain -- it can be entertaining to watch those morons spin out and fly off the road ... entertaining, that is, as long as you keep far enough away from them that you're not likely to get hit).

Not only do dedicated snow tires make an unbelievable difference on any vehicle, but there can be an unbelievable difference between snow tires. Snow tires that are old and/or have been heat-cycled by driving in too-warm conditions can get hard, and then they perform like ordinary tires--that is to say poorly--in the snow.

Living in Seattle, I'm not really concerned about snow so much as rain. Anyone have an opinion on what's the best "rain tire" for a RWD sports car (19" wheels)?

Time to address a misnomer: they are no longer usually called "snow tires", they're called winter tires. The reason is that one of the main benefits is that the tire compound is softer than a summer or all-season, which means better grip in lower temperatures. Typically, winter tires are preferable when the temperature drops below 7 degrees C (45 degrees F). So if the temperature in Seattle is normally below 45 in winter, you'll do well with winter tires. The additional cost will be largely offset by the fact that your regular tires will last longer. I'm on Dunlop Winter Sport M3 tires, and I love them. Excellent on wet roads and in snow. As soon as the temperatures rise (late March/early April) I'll swap them for my Bridgestone Turanza EL42 all-seasons.

I drive a 2007 2wd Sierra, possibly the worst choice for a winter vehicle. But with a set of snow tires and some snow in the bed I have no issues, even up here where the snow can be feet deep, road ice can get really crazy, and temps can plummet to -30 easily. I see all kinds of 4x4's/suv's and awd cars in the ditch on a regular basis but have had no issues. BY FAR the biggest thing is the driver, snow tires help for sure but if you can't drive they'll just get you to the scene on the accident sooner. Slow down, think where you are going, watch the other drivers and conditions, and you'll be fine. To everyone who laughs at someone else because they are stuck, that is just childish and petty...in serious winter, being stuck can kill you.

I drive a Chrysler 300C SRT-8 with winter tires in Finland and have no problems during the winter. We have lots of snow and minus 25 deg. Centigrade at the moment. It's a myth that you have to have front wheel drive in order to manage during the winter.

No, of course you don't need FWD. You don't "need" anything, even something as standard as ABS. But all of these things help. Like I said, FWD is usually better in slippery conditions than RWD, and AWD is better still (although of course AWD only helps when you're supplying power to the wheels; the moment you hit the brakes, an AWD car is no different than any other). If you're a skilled winter driver, and careful, you will probably do just fine with any vehicle. Personally, I'm happy to have AWD plus dynamic stability control plus good winter tires. All these things provide additional margin of safety.

From Toronto, Canada: My 300 HP rear-drive Lexus LS400 is stored for the winter - for a reason! I tried using this car in winter for a couple of years, but it was a no-go, even with high-quality snows (which I strongly advocate). My "winter-beater" is a 1999 Honda CR-V with snow tires, and it is unstoppable. All-wheel drive, great snow tires, good weight distribution and GROUND CLEARANCE! The Camaro lacks 3 of these 4 key attributes necessary for winter driving control. My recommendations for optimal test results would be:
1. Put 300 lb. of patio stones in the trunk, to put (lots) more weight over the drive wheels.
2. Run narrower tires than the stock summer size (narrower is actually better in snow and on ice).
3. Stay away from deep snow, to prevent turtling (getting the whole car hung up in the middle on packed snow, leaving no weight on the tires for traction)

Your #3 recommendation is an excellent point. I recall helping to free an Audi A4 quattro two years ago ... she had tried to drive through a two-foot-high berm left by a passing snowplow. If it had been soft snow and she'd been moving quickly, she might have made it. But it was hard packed and she got hung up. The only solution was to dig out all the snow under the car ... a good 30 minutes of work on your hands and knees in the snow.

I so agree, Lasse. I drive my '86 Camaro all year, V8/autotransmission. Not the "winter-car-of-the year", but it works fine. Live in Norway, we have 1m snow, icy roads and 17°C. I use, like 50% of norwegians tires with spikes. They do nothing "magic", but sure makes a difference.

To howard katz, mostly good advice, but don't use bricks, blocks or stones. They can become violent projectiles in the case of an accident. Major damage in the car if they don't leave the trunk. Potentially fatal if they do. Since I destroyed the rear of the cab, back window and box of an open pick up 30 years ago with 8 inch concrete blocks, I reccomend bags of salt or sand. They're much more stable while riding, provide soft impact points if dislodged and the salt/sand can provide additional traction/melting power if all the careful winter driving and planning still leaves you stuck. Also, place the weight as close to the axle centerline as possible. Placing weight way behind the axle provides a fulcrum effect and takes weight off the front wheels and can cause less steering control.

I live in Quebec and Snow tires are mandatory. I just got a Touareg and searched for the best snow tire I could find. The amount of data is truly limited. I would like to begin with the reviews I have read. Many of the reviews are done on cars and not SUVs. Cars with FWD can NOT be compared with RWD cars. The reviews done on snow tires are often done on LAST year models. The specific model of tire reviewed is no longer available. The new trend is also giving preference to so called ICE tires. Is an ICE tire better than a SNOW tire???? Traction control on most cars is a joke. Only a few high end ALL wheel drive systems recognize snow as a special condition. My Mazda 6 2004 would cut all power to the drive wheels when wheel spin is invoked, leaving me stuck in 2 inches of snow. In my opinion, (and many years of driving in Quebec winters) has lead me to the following conclusions: a) All wheel drive is always better. An all wheel drive vehicle with all season tires will be better than a 2 wheel drive with snow tires. b) Black ice is unforgiving and no tire (ice of snow) will help at excessive speeds. c) Snow tires with bigger block patterns dig better in deep snow and slush. (more fun to drive) d) Traction control (depending on the system) is an annoyance for experienced drivers and can be dangerous in some situations. e) A well balanced car with a good center of gravity will work better in the snow. My 1984 Camaro did pretty good when compared to my front drive Mazda 6. PS my Touareg has 18inch Nokian SUV-R tires (way better than Pirrelli scorpian SUV)

I drove an old Fox body Stang around for a winter on BFG Comp TA's (the predecessor to the g-force KDWS). I couldn't even get it out of my driveway after a dusting of snow. The following year I put a set of Blizzaks on it. It was the best car I've ever driven in the snow after that, and I've driven multiple front wheel drivers around on all season tires through the years.

Mustang copy

This is a great article. You really have tapped an interesting question that many enthusiasts wonder about. Here in the NY metro area I've been driving for the past three years a 2008 corvette with summer radials through the winter. On really bad days when it snows ...I don't take the vette out. When its cold I do notice a dramatic drop in grip..to the point of ridiculous though. Although I have a corvette instead of the camaro I look forward to your report back on how the camaro did. Fwiw..as a teenager my first car was a 1969 convertible 350 firebird and in the winter I put studded snow tires on..It worked great. Of course I should have put winter tires on the front but never did. Today people are a lot smarter with four winter tires dedicated to the season. What rims are you using? Did you buy a set dedicated for the winter tires? I beleive buying an extra set of winter tires and rims makes sense.. but I believe you'd also need a new set of air pressure sensors. I have four extra rims in my garage right now...Ready to decide...Do I buy another vehicle for the winter or do I buy a set of winter tires? I look forward to your very insightful report back. Very cool! Thanks JB

I would like to disagree with you about the difference between an AWD on all-seasons and a FWD on 4 winter tires. I recently had the opportunity to drive a Audi A4 Quattro with 4 new BFG Traction T/A all-season tires and a MINI Cooper S with one season old Nokian Hakka2 studded winter tires during a 12" snow storm. As expected the acceleration in the AWD was very good, but not that much better than the FWD. As soon as you hit the brakes or tried to turn there was no comparison, the car with the winter tires was much superior. Narrow winter tires are definitely the way to go. My summer tires are 205/50R16 my winter tires are 185/65R15. They end up with almost the same circumference so there is little to no speedometer error. Putting winter tires on the MINI transformed the cars winter performance from being terrible to being a pleasure to drive. As others have said, all-season tires are really no-season tires. If you have to drive in the winter, get winter tires!

My brother has a base LS w/ standard 18" all season tires. He reports that the car has very good traction on icy roads. Better than his Pacifica w/ stock all season tires.

YES! I drove one in the rain and was able to get plenty of throttle steer without turning off the traction control.

I'd like to know exactly what depth of snow will stop this Camaro. I'd also like to know how well it does when you stop in deep snow and then try to get started again. I'm also interested in the car's ability to regain contol, by backing off on the throttle, when the rear end gets loose at higher speeds on ice. Don't crash! Thanks

That may or may not be a fair comparison. I used to drive a Mazda6 with 18" Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires (All-seasons, but theoretically better than a typical all-season in mud and snow). I went through two sets of those tires -- they were great the first winter, ok the second winter and dangerous by the third winter, even though they hadn't yet reached the tread-wear indicators. Just pointing out that the age of a tire can make a big difference, especially with the special compounds they use now.

By the way, that wasn't meant as a criticism of the P Zero Neros. I thought they were great tires. But just as you can't expect one tire to do it all, you have to accept that the more a tire is oriented to performance and/or cold-weather grip, the shorter its life-span.

One of the things that make a winter tire work is the height of the tread blocks and the width of the voids between the blocks. The height of the block is what allows the rubber to reach down and make contact with the road surface. The width and shape of the voids is what allows the snow/slush that gets pushed up into the space to be expelled as the tire rotates. As the tread gets shallower with use the tire looses its ability to perform these functions and their use as a winter tire decreases. Typically a winter tire will be made with 10/32" - 13/32" (8mm - 10mm) of tread depth. They are still serviceable with tread depth of 6/32" - 7/32" (5mm - 5.5mm) but beyond that they are pretty much useless as winter tires. Where a summer tire, or all-season, will start with between 8/32" - 10/32" (6mm - 8mm) and be useful down to the wear bars at 2/32" or 3/32" (1.5mm or 2mm). But, when worn down to that level they will be rather exciting in a heavy rain.

How does the traction control / engine management work? Is it nice and liner or is it an on/off switch when it detects wheel spin?

In my experience Traction Control is dependent on the vehicle. I have a 2005 Dodge Magnum R/T AWD (Hemi V8). The Electronic Stability Protection (ESP AKA Traction Control) works by applying brakes to the wheels that are slipping. It does not work as all or nothing. For instance I can put it into a 4 wheel drift in snow and the ESP will kick in and straighten the vehicle back out. I also have the ability to make the ESP be less intrusive (say 50% power) so I can drift it, but when I get to a certain point it will not straighten the car but allow me to drift it and not completely spin. Lastly I put an override that allows me to turn ESP off completely. This means I am driving with raw AWD only and I can spin the car and do all sorts of crazy stuff. The LX series cars (magnum, charger, chrysler 300 C) are based on a Mercedes E class platform and borrow many of the chassis, suspension, brake, and AWD components from Mercedes. I also quite frequently drive an Audi S4. Their quattro system is much the same. I imagine many of the manufacturers have systems similar to the ones I have spoken to, however they may not be as advanced and therefore may seem more crude in their operation. I do have to say, the Magnum is one of the best all around vehicles in the snow and otherwise I have driven. Granted it does lack the ground clearance and is not as capable in deep snow as a 4x4. However in highway/on road snow driving conditions I would opt for the Magnum or similar AWD car over a 4x4. They are more nimble and handle these types of condition with ease. The Magnum is still quite capable as well. I own snowmobiles in Northern VT just outside of Canada and routinely pull a 2500 pound trailer over Jay Peak ( a 2200 foot + pass) in 1 foot of snow with no problem.

I realize that extra weight in the back will help with traction, but doesn't it just turn a well balanced car into a back-heavy old Porsche 911? How far can you push the electronics before physics takes over? And what about steering grip with all that weight in the back? I know everyone's grandfathers recommend it, but has anyone tested this with a modern RWD car with snow tires? Maybe you could!

So, while I appreciate the time and effort or squeipo's answer above to the traction control question - I really meant to ask some very specific questions. On the GM Camaro SS, how well does it's specific traction control system work? In my experience which is fairly extensive, traction control / ESC systems vary greatly in sophistication. My real question is how sophisticated the Camaro system is? For example: Is it a system that allows some amount of wheelspin and is gradual in it's application of controls? Does it use Fuel Management, Spark Management, Braking or other methods to perform these functions? Does the system do this gracefully or just act like a trip wire - exceed it's limits and it shuts everything down abruptly? Will the system allow some amount of oversteer to occur before beginning to cut in? To me this is the make or break question in trying either the Camaro or the Cadillac CTS-V. Does anyone have any experience that might answer this question

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So whatever happened to the report? Don't tell me you guys totalled the Camaro on Day 1 and gave up?!?!

They are just the French version haha...

I just picked up a 2010 Camaro SS and had snow tires (Pirelli Snow & Ice) installed at the dealer before taking it away. So far it was done well in packed snow and icey situations. I expect issues if there is much snow accumulation, but it seems ok so far for low traction road coverage.

Hello? I was waiting to see the driving impressions. I think there was a pretty big snow here in Detroit while the car was to be tested. Let's hear about how it went.

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I have an '08 Charger R/T and the snow yesterday and today has pretty well convinced me that I will have to break down and buy some winter tires and wheels. I got stuck in the middle of a busy intersection due to the plow trucks missing the turn lane completely, and between the traction control and the snow being high enough to lift the car slightly, I was helpless. I finally wagged the back end back and forth a few times and I was able to back up and make another run through the snow, and I made it. The traction control is way too aggressive on these cars, and it sometimes makes it much harder than it should be to drive it in the winter. Previous RWD cars haven't been nearly this bad, even my old hopped up torque junkie's dream car, a 79 Trans Am with the hairiest of hair trigger throttles was better in snow than the Charger is. I guess I'll stop buy the tire place near work in the morning and see what they have.